The Evolving Leader

‘Strategic Foresight’ with Dr Gabriele Rizzo

• Gabriele Rizzo • Season 8 • Episode 4

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In this episode of The Evolving Leader podcast, co-hosts Scott Allender and Sara Deschamps sit down with Dr. Gabriele Rizzo, a global authority on strategic foresight who has advised NATO, the US Space Force and major government institutions. The conversation explores how leaders can shift their relationship with the future, moving from prediction and short-termism to building resilience and long-term value. Gabriele shares the laws of foresight, why multiple futures matter, and how to use practical tools like scenario planning and futures wheels to unlock new thinking in times of uncertainty.

This conversation is a guide to making space for future relevance. Gabriele Rizzo challenges the listener to see the unknown not as danger but as potential, and to build organisations capable of disruptive innovation rather than defending the status quo. Whether you’re leading through transformation, wrestling with the implications of AI, or seeking to balance immediate performance with long-term impact, this conversation offers practical and thought-provoking insights into how foresight can become a critical leadership advantage.


Further materials from Gabriele Rizzo

Longviews.ai

 Foresight Kitchen

HR Futures 2030: A Design for Future-Ready Human Resources


 

Other reading from Jean Gomes and Scott Allender:

Leading In A Non-Linear World (J Gomes, 2023)

The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence (S Allender, 2023)


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The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.

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Jean Gomes:

Now more than ever before, leaders must focus more of their time and cognitive capacity on solving for the future. The typical leader spends less than 5% of their time on the problems of creating value for tomorrow and future relevancy in a world that is truly coming to a massive inflection point, this is a recipe for crisis. In this conversation, we're talking to Gabriel Rizzo, an expert in strategic foresight, to help you unlock some practical ways of thinking about changing your relationship with the future. Tune in to an important conversation on the evolving leader.

Scott Allender:

Hi folks. Welcome to the evolving leader. The show born from the belief that we need deeper, more accountable and more human leadership to confront the world's biggest challenges. I'm Scott Allender, and today I'm joined by my friend and co host, Sara Deschamps. Sara, how are you feeling today?

Sara Deschamps:

Scott, I am feeling incredible. We have had a week of rain, and today the sun is shining here in Toronto, I It's really affected my mood in a positive way, and I'm just really excited for today's today's interview, and to be co hosting with you. How are you feeling?

Scott Allender:

I'm feeling a little frazzled. It's been a crazy, busy week, but I'm feeling so grateful as well, because I love closing the week with brilliant conversations with our brilliant guests, and today I'm super, super delighted to to have the conversation we're about to have. So why don't you introduce our guest for us today?

Sara Deschamps:

Sounds good. Scott, so today we've got Dr Gabriel Rizzo, and He is the executive partner at longviews. Gabriel is a globally recognised expert in strategic foresight, and He specialises in defence, security and innovation. Now with nearly two decades of experience, Gabriel has advised top institutions including NATO, the US Space Force and the Italian Ministry of Defence in 2022 he was elected as one of the 30 UNESCO chairs worldwide in futures studies and foresight, becoming the youngest recipient ever. He's taught at institutions such as Sapienza University of Rome, Tor Vergata University of Rome, un il University de Lausanne, the US Space Force, the Air Force Institute of Technology, the US Air Force Academy, Asha C Lausanne and the Italian Centre for higher defence studies. And Dr Rizzo is also the author of routledges best selling HR futures, 2030, a design for future ready human resources. And he's working on the handbook of foresight strategy and future studies for defence and security. Gabriel, welcome to the evolving leader. How are you feeling?

Gabriele Rizzo:

It's great to be with you guys. I'm all pumped up.

Scott Allender:

Gabriel, welcome to the show. I'd love to just start a bit with your origin story. How did you get a passion for foresight?

Gabriele Rizzo:

Well, it actually all started when when I was eight, when I realised I was all fascinated by the fact that the there's a very specific piece in a in a black hole. So that's what I was reading when I was reading when I was eight. Probably that speaks of me, so please don't judge so. But there's this thing called event horizon, and the act of going through the event horizon is a non event. For some reason, this all got me thinking and got me down all the way into the rabbit hole of physics, and that actually opened up the door for me being passionate about the why of things and exploring the why things happen the way they happen, actually brought me to exploring a number of different ways in which things may happen or could happen or could have happened, and this was really just a step away from the actual practice of foresight that is the imagination and exploration of what seems impossible today so that we're ready for what tomorrow brings.

Scott Allender:

How did you hone that skill? How did you start developing that

Gabriele Rizzo:

it was a very non traditional path, because, unfortunately, there's no traditional path to foresight. So I went through my bachelor in theoretical physics and masters in theoretical physics. After that, I realised that, for a number of reasons, research was my wish. But not the career that was for me. So I decided to pivot into the defence industrial base. And within the defence industrial base, I discovered that there was something that really responded to my desire of exploring this broad and and wide range of different trajectories to the future, something that I had already within me, because already towards the end of my mass of my masters, I started asking myself, who who am I? What do I do? Right? I I do research, right? I look into the why of things, into the why of things that don't exist, what that we don't understand. But if I'm not walking down this path, then what path Am I walking? And so I started thinking, and I started attributing, like, made up names, like, maybe I'm a technology architect, maybe I'm a science architect. So this idea of architecting, of architecture of an infrastructure, of a process, of something that exists and that you can explore, trickle down into my thinking. Was only after I joined the ranks of the Defence industrial base that I realised that foresight was a thing. It was an actual discipline. It was born right after World War Two, that I could learn and explore and hone.

Sara Deschamps:

Can we jump into your work and maybe start with the big idea that sits at the heart of your work? How would the general population, how should the general population be thinking about the future,

Gabriele Rizzo:

not in the way they think that's that's the short version of the answer. So here's, here's the more structured version. What we do when we think about the future is, naturally, we think about one version of the future. When we think about predicting the future, we think about the crystal ball. And there is one future, there's one version, there's only one direction. But that's not what the future is. The future actually exists in the plural, because just think the present moment used to be the unimaginable future. So if there's an imaginable future and an unimaginable future, then by definition, there are at least two futures. So we have to work with futures in the plural, and if there are plural futures, then we cannot predict them, and so we have to do something else with futures. And foresight means thinking about lots of different things that could happen later, like imagining different ways a story might end. This is how I explain it to my daughter. We do not guess what's exactly going to happen. We do not predict. We don't want to guess the end of the story. We think about many possibilities. Doing this helps us choose better today, so that we can be ready and make good decisions no matter what happens next.

Scott Allender:

It seems that a big motivation for prediction, I think, in most, most of us anyway, is to try to reduce uncertainty, to try to sort of feel that we can make sense of the future, that we won't be surprised by it. But how this sort that's sort of an illusion of control, right? So how do we think about the future? What is the mindset required to open up to these multiple possible outcomes that you're describing?

Gabriele Rizzo:

Well, there are, there are many, many skills that you have to work with. First of all, because what you said, Scott is, is exactly right where it's just human to be scared about the unknown and the uncertain. And that dates back to when we were just humanoids, or just a little more than monkeys, big monkeys in caves, when we were finding shelter in heaven, in those caves, and when outside it was dark and we couldn't see, and so we couldn't know, well, there were monsters outside. I. Could have been eaten. We weren't at the top of the food chain like we are right now. We're not the super top predators we're today. So and these types of things that go on for 10s of 1000s of years are very hard to remove from your psyche. So that is why we're so scared of the unknown. Because what we do is filling the unknown with our predator void. We don't have predators anymore, so we're scared of the unknown because that what speaks to that void that we carry within ourselves. So what we have to do is creating a way to move our muscle memory from unknown equals danger to unknown equals potential, equals creativity, equals inspiration. That takes time and training, both in terms of the methods and methodologies and techniques and tools of foresight, which we can cover just a little bit, maybe later, and also in terms of self awareness and discovering where you are in your inner landscapes, how we can you can navigate where you place yourself, the maps of your inner territory, how you can access the latent spaces of your imagination. Because in the end, to work with a plethora of different trajectories to the future, you have to imagine them, and imagining means accessing those types of inner, very deep resources.

Sara Deschamps:

I'd like to link this to leadership. A lot of the work that we do with leaders, we've noticed that there's, there's a big struggle with holding the tension between the pressures for short term performance and short termism and what we need to do for long term performance, for what the future needs. And I understand why short termism, there's more certainty, there's maybe a bit more safety, but what have you learned in holding those paradoxes?

Gabriele Rizzo:

Yeah, yeah, I've definitely noticed that one, one piece of resource that I always mention is research that was published by McKinsey Global Institute in 2016 showing how firms that focus on long termism actually end up with a market capitalization that is twice or three times, or even five times the size of the firms that focus on short termism. And this report is titled The short sightedness of short termism. This is a great piece of research that I always cite because it's based on hard economic data. Something else that I always like to remind people is that when we work with foresight, we're not just looking five years out. The minimum time frame that is really use, useful or meaningful for a four set exercise is 10 years. We can work around this limit and maybe shrink it to like seven years with a number of kvets, but earlier than this, that's that's really not foresight. We can use tools and techniques from foresight to do something else in the shorter term, but that's not foresight. So the longer time span is really crucial. Usually, the answer that I have from people, the response is like, well, we'll cross the bridge when we'll we'll get to it. And I'm like, well, but think about you have a piece of regulation that tells you that in 10 years, you cannot sell internal combustion engines in Europe anymore. So you're telling me that you're you're thinking about it at year nine of 10 of your time window, really, because that doesn't fit your your industrial strategy, your industrial strategic plan, that doesn't make any sense as as well as it doesn't make no sense when we have the opportunity and the possibility and the chance to really look 10 years out and by looking at where we want to be, or looking at a number of features of the futures that we're able to create. We ate 10 years out, we can inform our midpoint position five years out, because the fact that we're looking 10 years out doesn't mean that all of the problems accumulate at the 10 year mark, a number of problems you might be in the need of tackling right from from the get go, because maybe they're very long term problems. Maybe you have to rebuild your business model, or maybe you have to pivot in a different part of the market, or maybe you have to think about a different type of asset. And I'm talking to defence and security leaders or governments that you may be need to have 10 years from now. These are not things that happen overnight. The fact that sometimes it seems that they happen overnight doesn't mean that the work that make them happen is not lasting decades. Or even more sometimes. How

Scott Allender:

would you advise leaders listening right now, who are saying this makes sense, but I am completely overwhelmed under tremendous pressure to deliver value for today, I've got to deliver quarterly results. Obviously, I do give some thought to the future, but I don't have the resources and time to really invest in it, so I end up, maybe even unintentionally, defending the status quo and trying to protect my business from threats and risks. What are some practical tools right in the in the context of the realities in which we find ourselves in this sort of always on, kind of high demand pressure people experiencing, what would you say are some real tools that you could start to give people to think about how to do what you're talking about.

Gabriele Rizzo:

So first of all, I want to want to top this with two very short remarks. First of all, no foresight. Effort is too little, as long as it's good foresight. So you can start with whatever, as long as it's very well it's structured in the proper way, and it's not like a standalone or like a one shot type of thing. So starting with very little is fine. Very, very little is okay. It's okay not to commit hundreds of 1000s of dollars of resources for your first shot. Just start with a little bit crawl, then walk, then run that that is okay. And we're all overwhelmed, so being overwhelmed is okay as well. Second of all, there are two best times to work with foresight. The best time overall is when you're thriving, when you're at the top of your Hill, when you're at top of your game, then that is a good time to work with foresight, because that opens up the way you're thinking about your problems and your business, and it empowers capturing new trajectories that you might not be able to see From your present observatory. The second best time to work with foresight is when you're in a mess, when you're in total crisis mode. That is your best time to work with foresight, because despite the fact that you're struggling to make ends meet and finding the the meaning of all this tangle and really unpack everything you have on your plate. That is that empowers you to make hard decisions that you wouldn't make otherwise. So that is the your second best time to really work with foresight and really access the entirety of um power of different trajectories that you can build in the future and see how they influence the present. How do you do this? Well, there are hundreds of techniques. I'd suggest a couple of things, just a couple, they're very easy. On top of the usual trends analysis, horizon scanning, things that are really, really the foundation of all this, and it would be even maybe not very formative for for our audience today to listen to I suggest you to use two different techniques. One is called the futures wheel. The futures wheel looks at a central topic and explores all of the different consequences that branch out from that single. Element. So you pick an issue or a discovery, or, in general, any element that can exist in the future, and you branch out all of the consequences from there. In that way, you understand how things are actually creating a context in the future that you might be interested in, because that is your context that you're navigating towards, maybe unwillingly. So let's make it a conscious decision. The other thing, the other technique that is very, very widely known, but it's nevertheless very effective, is using scenarios. Now I have to be very careful. I want to stress that not every story about the future is a scenario, a scenario to be so it has to tick some boxes, if we just tell a story about a person in the future that's not a scenario, that's a persona or a short story, if we're talking about if we're describing a situation that happens in the future That is at a very delimited scale, both regionally or or about a topic that could be a vignette or a war game, a scenario. Has to look across what we call the transactional environment. So we have to look across the entirety the space of all the things that happen. So it's, there are plenty of taxonomies to split the transactional environment, pest, for instance, that political, economic, social and technological factors, and then there's steep, there's steeple, there's there's plenty, really. And the power of these is that you can make your own if you see that there are some of the problems that you're trying to tackle are not included, or they don't match very well with this taxonomy. Build Your Own foresight is a very hands on discipline.

Sara Deschamps:

Gabriel, you have a tonne of experience working in environments like defence and government and in environments that are perhaps a little bit more legacy or a bit more traditional, where I think the widespread assumption is that risk aversion is the norm. How? How might a leader create space for disruptive innovation without triggering resistance?

Gabriele Rizzo:

There are many ways that I've seen this failing, so I'm happy that you're asking

Sara Deschamps:

this. So maybe it's a what not to do.

Gabriele Rizzo:

So what I what I've seen, is okay. So what not to do? Do not Christen a team as the ones, as those who are to have ideas, only them only they're the only ones who can have ideas. That's not the way to do it. If you build an advanced concepts team or an advanced technologies team, that is very likely not going to work unless you're putting this team in a matrix organisation, and so you're having a number of to tell it in a sci fi way, number of envoys, and I'm quoting altered carbon here, so you have a number of envoys that are functionally reporting to the head of the service or the vision or the line of business, and hierarchically reporting to the head of this, of This unit. But they have to be where things happen, otherwise, you're basically telling the rest of your organisation you're not very good at having ideas, and this is going to trigger antibodies from the entire organisation so that you'll never be able to really think about the future and explore innovation. Another thing that I've seen failing is not believing enough in innovation, using it just as a bumper sticker for a number of initiatives, but then trying to do zero risk innovation. If you know, if that even makes sense, you can't have zero risk innovation. If you want to innovate, you have to bear the risk. You have to be able to be a risk taker. If you don't want to be a risk taker, then be a fast follower. But you cannot be a leader or a trailblazer if you're not willing to, if you don't have the mechanisms and. You don't have the leadership that is able to work with risk. So one of the ways to do actual innovation work is with ambidextrous organisations. So you're creating another branch of your organisation that is completely disconnected from the Standard Hierarchy, and you create basically a cradle for fast track innovation. If you're looking to do something that is wildly disruptive and it could be potentially difficult to integrate with the rest of your organisation. That is a good way to do it. Otherwise, if you really want to build a culture of disrupted innovation that is going to get, that is going to get, take time, and you'll have to start working with dissemination a lot and really explaining what innovation and futures thinking is to people. Because in the end, all of us can think about the future, what we're missing is how to make this capacity deliberate and systematic.

Sara Deschamps:

Where are you seeing the best practices? Where are you seeing this happening in real time, where people can look for inspiration.

Gabriele Rizzo:

So what I've seen is that the usually companies who cross the threshold of $2 billion revenue, are the ones who really that. Really feel that they have to work with the future. They really feel that there's a level of influence and agency that they have with towards the future, and that they have to exploit futures intelligence to really make sense of. So first of all, look at the look at that threshold. So it's hard to see great best practices in in the corporate world below that level, think tanks and government organisation, that's a different story. Among all of these, the ones who have a lot of tradition and a lot of lineage is lineage is the within the defence industrial base. Because, you know, foresight was born in the defence industrial base, and was born in the defence world, and was taken by the Defence industrial base very soon. And that is inherent of how defence works. Because whenever we build a new asset if you want to have the new aeroplane or the new tank or the new ship, this is going to take decades before you're able to have it in the field. And this means that the world you're thinking about this asset is different from the world this asset will be operating in. So you have to have a way to tell the difference between where you are now and where you will be 20 years from now. And I'm not saying 20 years as as just a made up number. There's a there's research and evidence about this being at least 20 years.

Scott Allender:

Yeah. Can we build on that idea, I think that's super important. You reminded me we had Professor Hal Hirschfield on the show, I think, last season, and his book your future self. And one of the things he points out is that that we are strangers to ourselves when we think about the future, right? We can't really know and understand who we will be. So in leading into the future and building on your point you just made, how do we how do we start to solve for that? How does your work and what have you seen leaders accomplish in terms of learning to think and act differently about leading into that unknown future where what will be required of them in the future will evolve and change. Does that make sense?

Gabriele Rizzo:

It does absolutely. And it comes to mind a quote that so the original quote is, the past is a foreign country. They do things differently there. This is exactly true also for the future. The future is a foreign country, and they do do things differently there, to the point that there's one of the foundational laws of futures thinking that is data's second law of the future that recites that any meaningful idea about the future should seem to be ridiculous at first. So if it's not ridiculous, if it doesn't sound ridiculous. To you in the present, it's probably not future. This means that what you think is the most likely from your present standpoint, is actually the least likely, because that's not how the future will unfold. So you see how it's incredibly uncomfortable to work with the future, and so learning how to cope with this being uncomfortable is essential to work and to really use the future, because what we do with foresight is not what we do with forecast, and what I always say is that foresight is not forecast. We do not predict a single future. We explore many foresight use. Uses the future not as an objective to reach, but as an expendable construct whose sole purpose is to expand our thinking in the present, to make better, bolder decisions. We have to be comfortable with this concept. We have to stop looking for comfort in this idea of predicting. Prediction and planning are useful ways to work with the future, but they're old. They're not advanced. They're primitive. We need more advanced ways to really use the future.

Scott Allender:

So how does AI change all this? How should we be thinking about the future in the context of AI?

Gabriele Rizzo:

So I'm gonna tell you how we should not think about AI in a constant context of future. We should not think of AI as a substitute for futures work AI. And you know, I'm using AI as a placeholder for large language models in this this moment, in this conversation, and specifically with all the the zoo that we have of different large language models currently. But the whole point is that they're trained with data of the present, we could, they couldn't be trained with any other type of data, right? Data is a recorded measure of the past. So what AI does is extrapolating from the past to the future, which is exactly what we must not do. However, it's a great way to know everything that's happening in the present, which we are most of the time. Impossible. It's small. It's impossible for us to really wrap our our minds and heads and arms around the immense wealth of information and data existing in the present. So that is a great way to have snapshots of different things talking about the present that are incredibly helpful to work with the future, because, as William Gibson said, The future is already here. It's just not very evenly distributed. So the moment we're able to look at a multitude of different pockets of the future here in the present. Well, this helps us to build more meaningful futures.

Sara Deschamps:

Welcome back to the evolving leader podcast. As always, if you enjoy what you hear, then please share the podcast across your network and also leave us a rating and a review. Now let's get back to the conversation. Gabriel, in our time together, you've mentioned two laws of foresight. So you mentioned one law being foresight is about looking minimum 10 years out. And I think you mentioned one as well about the future. Must sound ridiculous when you're thinking of it in the present. And I was wondering, are there any other laws of foresight that that you work

Gabriele Rizzo:

with? Yeah, absolutely. So there are. There are two sets of laws, the fundamental laws in foresight, that are like Newton's laws and the laws of thermodynamics, for those working in physics, that are like the fundamental axiom of axioms of mathematics for those coming from that field, they are the pillars of how we work with the future. They describe the nature of futures work and the character of futures. And these. Two different sets are the set of the three dedorce laws of the future and three Clark's laws. So the date or s laws of the future describe the character of how we build futures. What is the nature of the work we do. First day, doors law. The Doors first law says that the future, the future cannot be predicted, because the future does not exist. And this is the core saying that there are multiple futures, and there are many ways in which we can work with a multitude of futures, and it's our duty to invent, assess, evaluate, imagine, reassess and recreate futures systematically. So in one word, we have to use futures the door. Second Law of the future is the one that I mentioned before. Every meaningful idea about the future should seem to be ridiculous at first and the doors. Third Law of the future says we shape our tools, and thereafter our tools, our tools shape us. This is immensely deep, also thinking that this was written in 1996 so there are a number of incredible consequences when you think about it, also looking at the the aspect of large language models. Currently the idea, if you think of prompting, not as a not as a one way dynamics, but as a two way dynamics. So basically, if you think of the answer of the large language model as a prompt to the human, and I'm pausing here and I let it, let it sink in, this changes everything when you start working with large language models, Clark's laws describe how we work with futures. They talk about, basically, how impossible is a resource? Impossible is a matter of time. Impossible is is a requirement. And, you know, working the third Clark's law is, is very, very famous. Also, it says that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. So it tells you a lot about how you should think about futures.

Scott Allender:

What is one really practical thing that you would advise a listener listening right now to maybe start implementing, to play with with their teams,

Gabriele Rizzo:

the easiest, easiest and at the same time, most difficult thing that they can do is the next time you're you feel like saying, No, that's impossible. Take a deep breath, pause and branch it out. So think, what if that's impossible? What if that is possible? And start exploring every single decision that you make in terms of looking at it, not as just a single path that you're walking, but as a number of choices, it's a number of different forks in the road that you're taking. The less powerful and more practical way of looking at this is next time you're in the office, gather with your with your leadership team and start talking about things you've never considered. They don't need to be completely outlandish or or made up. You know, it doesn't need to be aliens. It only need needs to be aliens if you have a direct impact from the fact that there could be aliens doing something, and if you're willing to take action and plan in your strategic plans, when it comes to the existence of aliens or the third or world war three, um. Because that is immediately where everyone goes when you let them lose on imagining things. But no one wants to live in paradise. It's boring to be in paradise. It's useless to be in hell. So the real most useful things, the most useful discoveries that you do is when you're forced to make trade offs. In doing trade offs, you really go deep down and discover what matters to you, where your regret is, and how you can use it, and how you can use your your awareness, to really understand what's important for you, for the leadership, for the company.

Scott Allender:

That's really helpful. What does your future look like?

Gabriele Rizzo:

Gabriel, I wish I knew nobody knows the future. Nobody can know the future. The future is unknowable, and that's the beauty and the power of it, because, yeah, because we can work on it, because we can make it whatever we want, because if the fact that the future is not fixed gives us agency on it.

Scott Allender:

So what are you working on next?

Gabriele Rizzo:

Well, we have a very important, as you mentioned, a very important work that's going on with Springer, the major reference work on foresight, that's called the handbook of foresight strategy and future studies for defence and security that is going to be out by the end of the year. And now we also are in the lead with supporting NATO and their in their futures works with what's called the Strategic Foresight analysis. So there, there are going to be, then there are, there are other things that we're doing that we can we do, but we can talk about Excellent.

Scott Allender:

So how can people get in contact with you?

Gabriele Rizzo:

I would invite everyone to either visit my LinkedIn profile. Then there's my personal website as gabrielrizzo.ai and also I would invite people to our audience to look at our past track record with long views on our website.

Sara Deschamps:

Longviews.ai, and Gabriel, before we close, you mentioned to me offline about I believe it's on your LinkedIn about foresight kitchen. Could you tell us just a little bit about

Gabriele Rizzo:

that? Absolutely. Thanks for bringing it up. I believe that the usual way of thinking about foresight as a toolbox is not the right way of framing it you a toolbox is cold, is ugly, and it's something that you hide in a closet because you don't want people to see a foresight instead, is a sophisticated place of people, of tools, of methodologies, but also of interaction. You cannot do foresight alone. This is a very important piece of foresight. We do not we're not hermit in the ivory towers. We work with people. We do not know the future of people or of company. We work with organisations to tap into their domain knowledge and know more about different futures that pertain to them. So that's why it's a kitchen. In a kitchen, there are unforeseen events, there are people, there are beautiful things happening, and sometimes you take one of the tools from the kitchen to do something else, and it's important that you know that it has to be back in the kitchen at a certain point, but it's a place of people and interaction and beautiful things happening, and that's why I'm convinced that the idea of a kitchen and not of a toolbox is much better to frame this capability.

Scott Allender:

I love that. Gabriel, thank you for your time and your wisdom. I know our listeners are going to love this, so we really appreciate you taking taking the time to share some of this with us and folks, thank you for listening, and until next time, remember, the world is evolving. Are you?

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Jean Gomes

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Scott Allender

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